[Trilinos-Users] Fwd: [Kokkos-Developers] Multidimensional array

Mark Hoemmen mhoemme at sandia.gov
Mon Nov 15 08:06:50 MST 2010 

Forwarding discussion of tensor software to the Trilinos users' list, for archival purposes.  Thanks Einar for describing your use case!

mfh

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Einar Otnes <eotnes at gmail.com>
> Date: November 15, 2010 8:58:49 AM CST
> To: "Hoemmen, Mark" <mhoemme at sandia.gov>
> Subject: Re: [Trilinos-Users] [Kokkos-Developers] Multidimensional array
> 
> Mark
> Thanks.
> Please forward. I made the mistake of not hitting reply apply.  It was  
> my attention. So feel free...
> 
> Best
> Einar
> 
> On Nov 15, 2010, at 8:48, "Mark Hoemmen" <mhoemme at sandia.gov> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Einar,
>> 
>> Thanks for letting me know about your use case!  As we mentioned, we  
>> don't currently have tensor functionality in Trilinos.  However, my  
>> colleague Tamara Kolda (http://csmr.ca.sandia.gov/~tgkolda/) is a  
>> tensors expert, and is interested in implementations as well as  
>> algorithms.  There are links to software (e.g., the MATLAB Tensor  
>> Toolbox: http://csmr.ca.sandia.gov/~tgkolda/TensorToolbox/) on her  
>> web page.
>> 
>> You may also want to look at the Global Arrays Toolkit:
>> 
>> http://www.emsl.pnl.gov/docs/global/
>> 
>> If you end up needing to implement your own tensor functionality,  
>> you might find it easier to start with Global Arrays.   
>> Tpetra::MultiVector doesn't fit your use case at all.  However, you  
>> should definitely try the MATLAB Tensor Toolbox first.
>> 
>> May I forward my reply and your original e-mail to the trilinos- 
>> users e-mail list?  We like to archive solutions there.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> mfh
>> 
>> On Nov 14, 2010, at 7:09 AM, Einar Otnes wrote:
>> 
>>> Mark
>>> I  am looking for a data container that can store data not  
>>> necessarily
>>> lots of mathematical operations. Thinking about the seismic  
>>> experiment
>>> which contain a source placed at coordinates (x,y) and a microphone  
>>> at
>>> (x2,y2) and record some reflection data as function of time. If I had
>>> a 5d array I could easily get access to any portion of the data by
>>> indexing, slicing etc. So, I'm not looking for a tensor with lots of
>>> functionality to do e.g. Tensor products etc.
>>> 
>>> There is a library out there already called "global arrays" by
>>> Nieplocha et al. which has the functionality i'm looking for, but it
>>> would be nice if such a library exists within trilinos with easy
>>> access to the functionality provided there.
>>> 
>>> I'm not a computer savvy, but I believe a simple a approach would be
>>> to take the tpetra vectors (1d) and add extra functionality that  
>>> allow
>>> you to select portions of your data with (I,j,k,l,m) indexes,
>>> calculating strides, slice, and subcube. In e.g. In matlab this would
>>> be done with index ranges along the different dimensions. I guess the
>>> user should have some control of how the data are stored in the
>>> different nodes etc.
>>> 
>>> I hope this was comprehensible. I don't know whether it fits within
>>> your ideas for what Trilinos is supposed to contain, but I've already
>>> seen the shard library which believe supports multiD arrays, but I
>>> don't think it support distrbuted arrays, which is what I'm looking  
>>> for.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Einar
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 14, 2010, at 0:35, "Mark Hoemmen" <mhoemme at sandia.gov> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Greetings Einar -- It would be great to know a little bit more about
>>>> what you are doing with tensors of order > 2.  If 2-D tensors
>>>> (rather, dense matrices) suffice, there are a number of libraries
>>>> you could use, but they would not necessarily help as much as Tpetra
>>>> does with things like encapsulating data layout and distributing  
>>>> data.
>>>> 
>>>> mfh
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 13, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Heroux, Michael A wrote:
>>>>> Einar,
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is a new effort to develop multi-dimensional array support in
>>>>> the
>>>>> Kokkos package, but this is for node-level parallelism (threads and
>>>>> GPUs).
>>>>> I am unaware of anything else.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Tpetra's multivector class can be adapted to work in this way,
>>>>> since you can
>>>>> have any number of columns in the multivector, but at some point
>>>>> such an
>>>>> approach would be an abuse of the intent.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have copied the Kokkos developer list as well, in case anyone
>>>>> else might
>>>>> have comments.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mike
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 11/13/10 8:08 AM, "Einar Otnes" <einaro at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>> I have been searching for an array library that can replace the
>>>>>> one I'm
>>>>>> currently using, blitz++. what I'm after is an array library that
>>>>>> supports
>>>>>> multiD and distributed memory. I hope and believe that I can find
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> within trilinos. Tpetra seems promising, but I believe it supports
>>>>>> only 1d and
>>>>>> 2d arrays through vectors and matrices. But it's capability for
>>>>>> distributed
>>>>>> computing seems to be extensive and very good. Then I found
>>>>>> Shards, which I
>>>>>> believe supports multiarrays, but browsing through its
>>>>>> documentation it didn't
>>>>>> seem to support distributed memory. So, in short, are there any
>>>>>> libraries in
>>>>>> trilinos that I use as a multiDImensional distributed arrays?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Einar
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Trilinos-Users mailing list
>>>>>> Trilinos-Users at software.sandia.gov
>>>>>> http://software.sandia.gov/mailman/listinfo/trilinos-users
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Kokkos-Developers mailing list
>>>>> Kokkos-Developers at software.sandia.gov
>>>>> http://software.sandia.gov/mailman/listinfo/kokkos-developers
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

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